Lets state the obvious- Michael Jordan was an amazing basketball player. This, everyone knows. But he was also a very lucky player.
Michael Jordan was in his prime in an era when Magic and Larry were in the twilight's of their career, and modern potential GOAT's (greatest of all-time) like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and LeBron were still far off their primes.
I dont wanna detract from anything MJ has ever done or accomplished. He's not the greatest winner (Bill Russell), not the most individually accomplished in the regular season (Abdul-Jabbar), doesn't lead the league in points, rebounds or assists, (Abdul-jabbar, Chamberlain, Stockton).
But his 5 MVP's, 6 Title's, 6 Finals MVP's, and a DPOY make him the most all round decorated player ever.
Just for gags, here's a few things to note about the 90's
- The best wing player in the league at that time (besides MJ), and also the only guy capable of stopping MJ, was Scottie Pippen, whom MJ had the fortune of being on his own team.
- The 90's had a lot of great players, but none were in the Magic-Bird-Duncan-Shaq-Russell-Kobe echelon of players. (except maybe Hakeem Olajuwon)
In fact if we break down the upper echelon of Bill Simmons HOF pyramid, we can see how poor the 90's really were (not including MJ): Russell (peaked in the 60's), Kareem (70's), Magic (80's), Bird (80's), Chamberlain (60's), Duncan (00's), West (60/70's), Oscar (60's), Hakeem (90's), Shaq (00's), Moses (80's), Havlicek (60/70's), Elgin (60's), Kobe (00's), Dr J (70's), Pettit (50/60's), and finally at no. 18 we have another nineties player, Karl Malone. So for a tally of the top 18..
60's: 6 (of the best 18 of all time)
70's: 3
80's: 3
90's: 1
00's: 3*
(*LeBron, after winning his second MVP this season will have risen a few spots from no.20 and is probably now ahead of Malone, so lets increase the 2000's to 4.) - Alright even if we do include Malone and Barkley etc. how far down Bill Simmons pyramid do we go before we find another wing player from the 90's? (when i say wing player, i refer to players MJ would have guarded, or players who would have guarded MJ- sorry Stockton, but that means your out, you couldnt guard Derek Fisher)
...Hmm not that far, at no. 24 we have Scottie Pippen. Oh wait, they were on the same team....
...
Ok at number 40 we have Gary Payton. Now it sort of bothers me that the supposed 'best of all time' had only one other great wing to play, and the fact that Payton had the jump on MJ in a few pretty important games, namely when he held MJ to 5/19 in game 6 of the NBA finals, which Chicago won, seemingly because the 2nd best wing of the 90's was also on the Bulls!
How would MJ have performed having to guard Kobe and LeBron in the 90's? And, just as importantly, them guarding him?
Now lets consider what would have happened if MJ had peaked in different Era's...
The 60's
Good luck MJ. This decade was dominated by Boston so badly that Bill Russell has 11 Titles!! Boston were the ultimate team. They focused on passing, defence and rebounding. They had one of the 5 greatest players and best center of all-time in Bill Russell, and time and time again they proved that a team of champions can never beat a champion team, Highlighted by Russells 11 rings to Chamberlains 2.
MJ's potential rings? Depends on which team he played for but unless he teamed up with Wilt he is probably looking at 2 max.
The 70's
This era is the most unfairly calculated. It was a shit decade for the NBA as they only had half the best players in the world, the other half being in the ABA. This is not worth calculating. Its like trying to visualise how many rings LeBron would have by now if the Lakers, Spurs and Celtics were in a different league. He would have about 7.
Lets skip the 70's
The 80's
Hmmm... Now MJ would face some pretty stiff competition in the 80's. How would he go against Bird, Parish and Mchale in Boston? What about Magic, Worthy and Kareem in LA? What about Isiah and Dumars in Deeeetroit?
I'm thinking it would be pretty hard to get past the Lakers or the Celtics in the 80's. (For proof, MJ was drafted in 84, yet he didnt win a title til 1991, when Bird retired. Its not like he needed a few years to develope either, he averaged 28.2, 6.5, 5.9 and 2.4 steals as a rookie.) I can see him possibly stealing Detroits title in 89, Phillies title in 83, and maybe one of Lakers titles along the lines.
MJ's potential rings: 3 max
The decade from 00-09 (Noughties? or something)
I know this decade pretty well, lets go into more detail here.
From 00-02 the lakers 3-peated. Now how effective would MJ be having to guard Kobe for a series as well as having Kobe guard him? And unlike opponents he faced in the 90's, the Lakers had the pleasure of Kobe on the perimeter being able to take gambles on the defensive end because yep, you guessed it, they had Shaquille fucking O'neal defending the rim. Would MJ have to rely to much on his shooting stroke with Shaq patrolling the paint and blocking off drives? How effective would that be with Kobe hassling him constantly?
With the 1-2 Shaq Kobe punch, as well as a bunch of the most efficient role players ever assembled, there is no way MJ is stealing a title here.
2003 was the Spurs. They had Tim Duncan in his prime, but a rookie Tony Parker and a young Manu that is not anywhere near the Manu we know today. They also had David Robinson, but when he was old enough to be Tony's father. But like i said before, they had vintage Tim Duncan. In the 03 Finals he averaged 24.2 points, 17 rebounds, and 5.3 blocks. In the deciding game 6, he exploded for 21, 20, 10 and 8 blocks.
Now i'm sorry, but no-one in history could stop the Spurs with Tim Duncan playing like that. MJ has no chance here.
2004 was Detroit. Now this is MJ's first possible title. Detroit had a team in every sense of the word. Their lineup of Billups, Rip, Tayshaun, Rasheed, and Big Ben led them to 5 consecutive conference finals appearances, but in a time when the East was at its weakest. MJ could grab a title here, on account of Detroits seemingly inability to contain great wing players (e.g they lost to Dwyane Wade in 2006 and LeBron in 2007).
2005 was the Spurs again. Duncan was still as powerful as ever, dropping 20 & 14 on Detroit to beat them in 7. They were more even spread this time, and the evolution of the big three had well and truly begun with Parker and Manu inheriting the league's 'best backcourt' status from Detroit. MJ probably has no chance here, the Spurs were that good.
2006 brings what i think of as the worst championship team of all time. People describe D-Wade's finals performance as vintage MJ. So what would MJ have been playing then?
The 2006 Heat had Wade, an injured declining shaq, and.... nothing else. This season shouldnt even count, due tot he officiating scandal.
I'm gunna give MJ a title here.
2007 was the most boring finals ever. The Spurs completely shut down the Cavs, and it was never in doubt. As with the previous two, MJ is not likely to steal a title here. (Don't believe me? Just know that the only reason the Spurs didnt win 5 in a row was due to one unlikely 3 point play by Dirk and a few other unfortunate events that i wont go into here)
2008 is untouchable. MJ has two choices. Guard Paul Peirce(the 08 finals MVP and one of the greatest players of the decade) or guard Ray Allen, e.g chase the uber fit Allen through 5 different screens on every posession then be exhausted on offense. Remember, Boston had incredible defense that year with Garnett winning DPOY and having players like Perkins, Rondo, Posey, Peirce, and Tony Allen who were no defensive slouches. This was one of the most solid teams of all time. Allen, Peirce and Garnett were at the exact right point of their careers for this to work. They were all in the tail end of their prime, and had never tasted success in their careers. They all left their ego's at the door, sacrificed stats and individual glory for the chance at winning a championship. And don't think they weren't the mentally toughest team in the league either.
2009 had a Kobe who had finally grasped the concept of team basketball. He was at the point in his career where he could possibly cancel out MJ. So unless MJ had a 7 foot center, a 7 foot power forward with the best post game in the league, a forward who was so versatile he drew comparisons to Magic Johnson, and a solid point guard who was extremely clutch, then MJ had no chance.
MJ's potential rings: 3 max. (04, 06, 07)
Now obviously this is highly speculative. Its luck to a degree. You could get lucky with what team your drafted by, which players are on your team, or in MJ's case, what era you were in your prime.
Anyway thats it for now. You could think this is all bullshit, and MJ would still be the most decorated played of all time no matter when he played. But you would be wrong.
I'm out
I gotta disagree.. as always. I admit, there was obviously a bit of luck in all this. But you're talking as if MJ is taking on entire teams by himself throughout each era. IF he was in another era, he would obviously be on a team taht built itself up over time, and he would be on a strong team, as most exceptional players eventually are. I believe (and this is all speculative you bastard, how could you bag out such a man on meer speculation) he would have his boys to back him against many of the ballers you're mentioning (ie the choice of going after either Allen or Pierce, that's not a one man effort... team game). It's true he may not have had as many titles... become so decorated... but he definitely would still have been a top 3player no matter what era. The boy had some genuine skills. You can't take that away from him.. he could hold his own against the best.. I think it'd come down to what team he was pulled into in the chosen era. You bastard chunk :P I think he'd still have a shot at most decorated... depending on which teams locked him down. So like you said... too much specualation, how about stick to the facts. He was in the right palce, at the right time. And destroyed.
ReplyDeleteyeah i definitely think he would have ended up as best of all time, regardless of the era. he had that desire that only bird, kobe, etc have. i was merely pointing out that he dragged a bunch of scrubbers (besides pippen) to the title by himself, never had a good team, just himself because he was so exceptionally good. but i think that although he was the greatest, he would not have been able to pull off the same feats in different decades, with uber strong teams like birds celtics, magics and kobes lakers, and duncans spurs. the 90's was relatively weak, and he was great enough to capatilize on the lull of alltime greats in that decade. remember he was drafted as a 21yr old in 84. he had 6 years to beat magic and bird, yet he couldnt. which is unfair because the magic and celtics were loaded teams back then, and he was an awesome player on a shit team. which is exactly my point. the bulls of the 90's could not have beat the best teams of all time.
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